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WitheredFlame

Schematica Banned?

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It has come to my attention that Schematica is not allowed on the server.  This is a great tragedy for me, along with others, as i like to import buildings i made in SP and other servers.

Me, all my friends, and many Diversity players would like to see this allowed, especially the printer.

 

(Edit: I thought)

There must be a compromise, I'm sure for whatever reason a great tool like this was banned we can talk about it.

If this is not the right thread, please let me know and i will re post.

 

If anyone who made the decision not to allow Schematica can explain their reasoning it would be helpful.

Edited by WitheredFlame
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Hi WitheredFlame, 

Although I'm sure the admins will have a better response to you on this, I just wanted to add a little bit of input. 

21 hours ago, WitheredFlame said:

especially the printer.

 

As far as I know, this was the primary reason that the mod was banned. Most aspects of the mod were fine, just this one proved to cause a few liabilities. The main one being a large disadvantage it provided to other players not using the mod.  Most people enjoy building, and the reward that comes out of finishing a build, and allowing players to have an advantage over others due to a mod. If you're really too lazy to want to build it how most normal players do, why build it in the first place?

 

tl;dr We're not welcoming of the cheaty-lazy aspect of the mod. 

 

Thanks, 

Two

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Essentially what TwoDog said.

The SMP server is meant to primarily be survival based. The Printer aspect of the Schematica mod is very, very "cheaty" and it's unfair to other players who spend a lot of time and effort building amazing things the old fashioned way. If you want to cheat a build, whether its by just printing other people's work, using a mod to save time, or using creative inventories,  that's what creative servers are for. 

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On 8/5/2018 at 10:30 AM, Mouse said:

Essentially what TwoDog said.

The SMP server is meant to primarily be survival based. The Printer aspect of the Schematica mod is very, very "cheaty" and it's unfair to other players who spend a lot of time and effort building amazing things the old fashioned way. If you want to cheat a build, whether its by just printing other people's work, using a mod to save time, or using creative inventories,  that's what creative servers are for. 

 

Using a tool to quickly build something is cheating?

The printer does not stop people from making amazing builds. In fact, it enables them to import more complex ones into Diversity. Building and testing something is Survival is very, very hard; and is bound to dissuade builders from making larger builds.

By that logic computer stock traders and teleporting in Diversity should also be banned? Because that would be unfair to everyone that trades stocks manually and people that build physical transportation networks?

 

I sort of see the printer as a tool; a way to build something great in creative, test it, then import it into survival.

 

I don't think enhanced building speed or quality for your own builds creates victims.

 

I hear that turning up your Gama is also not banned? Players that Gama Jack can see in total darkness, there is no need to place lighting if they have good weapons. That would give one a massive advantage over other players, especially in the ore world where speed is key and being able to see far away is paramount. Personally, i did not know about Gama Jacking until 3 months ago.  So any argument that any knowledge barrier is a deal breaker would not work in this scenario.

 

I can see what you mean in saying "Minecraft SMP was not meant to be played that way", but Diversity has Instant Teleporting and Public Farms. That is not Vanilla. I think that would classify as "cheaty" as well.

But that's OK, as Servers would be very boring without some of those "cheaty" things. And i don't think the printer is nearly as big of a infringement on basic MC when compared to unlimited public resources and instant transmission.

 

 

 

Popular Responses:

" This is an insult to everyone who has spent hours and hours building massive structures in survival mode on our server. "

So, by that logic, all calculators are a insult to people that did basic, repetitive, boring math for a living?

the printer does the boring tasks for you, while letting you design in creative. This is much less tedious, frustrating, and ineffective then designing while you build.

---

"  Not everyone would have schematica as well "

Not everyone would have Optifind as well, but that is not banned. That obviously is not the reason why they banned it, and for good reason: It's free.

Just have announcement in the chat everyone once and awhile: "Here is a list of allowed client mods and a summary of what they do: https://example.com//"

---

"  Minecrafters show off their creativity and commitment through building. That's the main feature of the game. "

Creativity is not shown off by building/placing blocks alone. It is shown off by designing. Building/placing blocks alone is boring and requires no creativity.

The printer lets you save time by designing in creative, then importing to survival. Designing while you build is highly ineffective and frustrating with more complex builds. It's the same principal with regular printers: With only a typewriter and a pencil, there is only so much that is time effective. Even the simplest addition beyond text becomes hard and prone to error. Now, with Microsoft word and regular printers, we have so much more DIVERSITY. Isn't that great? Everyone on the planet seems to think so.

Minecraft is mostly a sandbox game. The main feature is what we make of it. Plus, I prefer to not make that feature any harder than what it could be.

---

  " The printer would make me question everything. "

So what if the build is not yours? Is it a good build?

Yes, you will have to take the origin of build the with a grain of salt, but you have to do some of that now as well! People can copy just fine without schematica; it's just incredibly tedious, and prone to error.

---

"  It is not something we want on our server, and it is not going to be changed.  "

Ok, i can respect that. Some people like to play games certain ways, and some things make those ways obsolete.

---

 

 

 

TR;DR

I get that some people don't like to play around the printer; they like the challenges that come without it. I'm sad that the staff doesn't see this topic the same way.

Printing will not interfere with other players; it enables them to save eons of time by designing in creative, then importing to survival.

Gamajacking is not banned while the Printer is. What?! One requires a download, yes, but both are not known to most. That's, like, 30 seconds worth of difference. And the Printer is Free; so both are as easily available. One is a Downloaded Edit and the other is a Edit.

 

Creativity is not shown off by building/placing blocks alone. It is shown off by designing. Building/placing blocks alone is boring and requires no creativity.

The printer lets you save time by designing in creative, then importing to survival. Designing while you build is highly ineffective and frustrating with more complex builds.

 

 

People cheered and gave hoorays when the IRL printer was invented. It saved from from the Typewriter's boring, repetitive tasks and limited functionality.

 

 

So what if the build is not yours? Is it a good build? You have to question the origin of the build either way; with or without a printer.

 

So, If I'm correct, Diversity is OK with Instant Teleportation, Teleportation to Private Farms (lvl 5+), Enhanced to Perfection Player Vision, but not Enhanced To Perfection Building?

Edited by WitheredFlame
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Sure, lets let everyone click a button and have all their builds appear automatically for them without them having to do any work.

Sounds like a great way to play Minecraft.

 

This is an insult to everyone who has spent hours and hours building massive structures in survival mode on our server.

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I'm not a mod so I'll try to but in here minimally, but I've been encouraged to build giant, beautiful things because I've seen that it can be done and I have more attention span than that of a goldfish. Not everyone would have schematica as well, like tree topper or teleportation, so it's an unfair and unrelated comparison. If you want "Enhanced to perfection building" try until you can do it yourself, don't outsource it to a mod. 

If you want to build something great, that's fine and dandy. Just one thing, build it yourself.

Edited by Chrono
One sentence was unclear.

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This is an opinion post. Don't use what I say as legitimate information. I'm not a staff member.

On 11/21/2018 at 8:46 PM, WitheredFlame said:

Using a tool to quickly build something is cheating?

Yeah, it is. A lot of time and effort is put into building, and like turbo said, making a building appear in one click ruins the point of building. Is it really even building if youre not actually building?

On 11/21/2018 at 8:46 PM, WitheredFlame said:

By that logic computer stock traders and teleporting in Diversity should also be banned?

Not quite. You see, everybody has instant access to those. No external files are required.

On 11/21/2018 at 8:46 PM, WitheredFlame said:

One is information based, while the other is building based.

A lot of SMP is seeing the time and effort spent into creating stuff. You can't display the amount of time spent playing on here by showing the goodies you found by exploring. It's all luck.

The great thing about building is that it takes time, creativity, and it really shows off what kind of builder you are. How committed you are, and how willing you are to put the time and effort into a big build. My opinion on this is that the printer completely destroys this amazing construct. The second you add a printer, you no longer see how good a person is at building, but rather how good they are at potentially copying other people. I would be quite disappointed knowing that all the builds I look up to aren't even built by who they claim to be built by.

On 11/21/2018 at 8:46 PM, WitheredFlame said:

Gama is also not banned?

Yeah, once again, everybody can easily do this. No external files are required. Just hop into your minecraft options file.

 

On 11/21/2018 at 8:46 PM, WitheredFlame said:

That is not Vanilla.

No, you're totally right. But thats not how we work. We have plugins, we allow certain mods. If you want a completely vanilla server, I recommend looking elsewhere.

The printer feature won't ever get unbanned, so if that's really what you want, I suggest looking elsewhere as Mouse said.

 

TL;DR

Minecrafters show off their creativity and commitment through building. That's the main feature of the game. The printer would make me question everything.

Edited by DarkMonolith
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On 11/21/2018 at 7:54 PM, Turbotailz said:

Sure, lets let everyone click a button and have all their builds appear automatically for them without them having to do any work.

Sounds like a great way to play Minecraft.

 

This is an insult to everyone who has spent hours and hours building massive structures in survival mode on our server.

Don't drag all of us down with you because you don't like it.

The printer will not keep you from spending hours designing and building in survival, the printer just renders it ineffective because designing while you build is a very bad idea.

So, by that logic, all calculators are a insult to people that did basic, repetitive, boring math for a living?

Edited by WitheredFlame
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On 11/22/2018 at 11:50 PM, DarkMonolith said:

This is an opinion post. Don't use what I say as legitimate information. I'm not a staff member.

Yeah, it is. A lot of time and effort is put into building, and like turbo said, making a building appear in one click ruins the point of building. Is it really even building if youre not actually building?

Not quite. You see, everybody has instant access to those. No external files are required.

A lot of SMP is seeing the time and effort spent into creating stuff. You can't display the amount of time spent playing on here by showing the goodies you found by exploring. It's all luck.

The great thing about building is that it takes time, creativity, and it really shows off what kind of builder you are. How committed you are, and how willing you are to put the time and effort into a big build. My opinion on this is that the printer completely destroys this amazing construct. The second you add a printer, you no longer see how good a person is at building, but rather how good they are at potentially copying other people. I would be quite disappointed knowing that all the builds I look up to aren't even built by who they claim to be built by.

Yeah, once again, everybody can easily do this. No external files are required. Just hop into your minecraft options file.

 

No, you're totally right. But thats not how we work. We have plugins, we allow certain mods. If you want a completely vanilla server, I recommend looking elsewhere.

The printer feature won't ever get unbanned, so if that's really what you want, I suggest looking elsewhere as Mouse said.

 

TL;DR

Minecrafters show off their creativity and commitment through building. That's the main feature of the game. The printer would make me question everything.

TL;DR

Creativity is not shown off by building alone. It is shown off by designing. Building alone is boring and requires no creativity.

The printer lets you save time by designing in creative, then importing to survival. Designing while you build is highly ineffective and frustrating with more complex builds.

So what if the build is not yours? Is it a good build? You have to question the origin of the build either way; with or without a printer.

 

---

 

I show off my creativity through designing. (and building) but mostly designing. The printer helps with getting that into survival.

Making something in survival is unnecessarily hard. It would be much easier to design in creative, then import.

 

So what if the build is not yours? Is it a good build?

Yes, you will have to take the origin of build the with a grain of salt, but you have to now as well! People can copy just fine without schematica.

 

Also, GamaJacking is not banned. That is file based (one is free to download one is already in mc), and is "Enhanced to Perfection Player Vision"

If you want to take ages to build something in survival that's fine, but don't limit everyone else to that ideal. It's not consistent.

 

Just the act of placing blocks is tedious and boring; when not coupled with designing. Lets make it a bit easier, shall we?

Edited by WitheredFlame
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4 minutes ago, WitheredFlame said:

Making something in survival is unnecessarily hard. It would be much easier to design in creative, then import.

The entire point of survival is to have a challenge. If we allow printer mode, you might as well just be in a creative world. We want our server to show off builds from survival, not ones that have been cheated in from creative.

 

7 minutes ago, WitheredFlame said:

So what if the build is not yours? Is it a good build?

Yes, the entire fun of playing multiplayer is to look at other player's builds! If they were able to make it in survival, so can you. You don't need schematica to let you make awesome builds.

 

16 minutes ago, WitheredFlame said:

Also, Optifind is not banned. That is external file based, and is "Enhanced to Perfection Player Vision"

Optifine is not banned because it is not directly giving anyone an unfair advantage. It is mainly just used as a performance enhancer. It is not speeding up the process of building or doing anything for anyone.

 

24 minutes ago, WitheredFlame said:

If you want to take ages to build something in survival that's fine, but don't limit everyone else to that ideal. It's not consistent.

The entire point of survival is to gather the materials yourself and build without flying! If you have all the blocks right in front of you, it might as well be like you are in a creative world just casually building away with no worries of making a mistake. We are limiting everyone because we don't want players to be thinking that some of the awesome builds on our server were made with schematica. It is not something we want on our server, and it is not going to be changed. 

We are being consistent. Schematica is banned because it gives an unfair advantage; it is just like xray or and other hack, including fly. Optifine is fine because it is just making your game run faster. 

TL;DR 

It is not getting unbanned, if you choose to use it, you will get banned. It gives you an unfair advantage and just ruins the entire point of survival.

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   Im not a staff but the whole point of survival is(like Snow said) to have a challenge. If i were to say i saw a really awesome build, it would take out some of the awe when i found out it was not made block for block. It is much more inspiring and more commendable  if you spent time and effort into building it block by block not just putting in a command and making it appear.

   Also we offer a creative server.  So if you do have trouble designing while building you can build it there and then take screenshots. Then copy off of those. That is what all of us Diversity members that have been playing for a while do.

 

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To add to what everyone else has stated against the mod Schematica--not only can it directly provide unfair advantages to other players on the server--it can also pose as a griefing issue if the mod were to be allowed. 

In the past on other servers, I have experienced issues surrounding players being able to bypass GriefPrevention claims and other means of protection using Schematica's Printer function. Although I do not know if this is still an issue or if it has been patched in future versions of the mod or of GriefPrevention, I still say that the mod possibly  provides a sizeable threat to the server that would not be worth the risk of finding out.

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4 minutes ago, SnowBaller94 said:

The entire point of survival is to have a challenge. If we allow printer mode, you might as well just be in a creative world. We want our server to show off builds from survival, not ones that have been cheated in from creative.

 

Yes, the entire fun of playing multiplayer is to look at other player's builds! If they were able to make it in survival, so can you. You don't need schematica to let you make awesome builds.

 

Optifine is not banned because it is not directly giving anyone an unfair advantage. It is mainly just used as a performance enhancer. It is not speeding up the process of building or doing anything for anyone.

 

The entire point of survival is to gather the materials yourself and build without flying! If you have all the blocks right in front of you, it might as well be like you are in a creative world just casually building away with no worries of making a mistake. We are limiting everyone because we don't want players to be thinking that some of the awesome builds on our server were made with schematica. It is not something we want on our server, and it is not going to be changed. 

We are being consistent. Schematica is banned because it gives an unfair advantage; it is just like xray or and other hack, including fly. Optifine is fine because it is just making your game run faster. 

TL;DR 

It is not getting unbanned, if you choose to use it, you will get banned. It gives you an unfair advantage and just ruins the entire point of survival.

Opti "FINE"! Ah.

Now i see why you say there is constancy.

Opti Find is a slang term used to name generic mini maps. (as far as i know)

 

Thank you for clarifying.

 

 

Any thoughts on the hologram functionality?

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42 minutes ago, Anziety said:

To add to what everyone else has stated against the mod Schematica--not only can it directly provide unfair advantages to other players on the server--it can also pose as a griefing issue if the mod were to be allowed. 

In the past on other servers, I have experienced issues surrounding players being able to bypass GriefPrevention claims and other means of protection using Schematica's Printer function. Although I do not know if this is still an issue or if it has been patched in future versions of the mod or of GriefPrevention, I still say that the mod possibly  provides a sizeable threat to the server that would not be worth the risk of finding out.

Strange. How long ago was this?

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9 minutes ago, WitheredFlame said:

Any thoughts on the hologram functionality?

The hologram functionality meaning the part that outlines the blocks and shows you where to place what block? If this is what you mean, then no, it is not allowed and should not be allowed because it is cheaty and ruins the entire point of survival.

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1 minute ago, SnowBaller94 said:

The hologram functionality meaning the part that outlines the blocks and shows you where to place what block? If this is what you mean, then no, it is not allowed and should not be allowed because it is cheaty and ruins the entire point of survival.

Do you have any thoughts on Gama Jacking then?

I think it's kind of cheaty and ruins the point of Survival. It's similar in functionality to X-ray; as it lets players see things that they are not supposed to see.

Don't you agree?

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I personally think gama is fine and I use it. We allow this because, although it is not a default setting, it can be changed without the need of a mod. It can be done by going into your options folder.

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10 minutes ago, SnowBaller94 said:

I personally think gama is fine and I use it. We allow this because, although it is not a default setting, it can be changed without the need of a mod. It can be done by going into your options folder.

So it being a mod is a deal breaker?  One is a file that you already have, and the other is a file that you download. And in this case, download for free.

It's around a 30 second difference and a couple of file moves in terms of getting the thing to work; it's not too different.

Do not want to not allow mods because it is not in basic mc? Or is this a slippery slope thing and your worried that if you let this one in all the rest will come flooding in?

Edited by WitheredFlame
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Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Schematica. I love that mod. Although I do have to say the printer function IS still cheating. Because of that, I agree it should be banned.

Edited by TPS_Platinum

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Schematica has been banned for the longest time, and it is remaining that way. 

2 minutes ago, WitheredFlame said:

Do not want to allow mods because it is not in basic mc?

We are not allowing it because it is cheaty and ruins the entire point of survival, as I said before. We have plugins that are not in basic Minecraft, like TreeAssist, essentials, and so on. We are not against all mods, just ones that give unfair advantages. People come to us asking about mods, and if there is no unfair advantage it gives, we allow them. 

At the end of the day, we make the decision. This has gone  on for long enough. We are not convinced that it should be allowed. It is cheaty, and that is that. 

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Just now, SnowBaller94 said:

Schematica has been banned for the longest time, and it is remaining that way. 

We are not allowing it because it is cheaty and ruins the entire point of survival, as I said before. We have plugins that are not in basic Minecraft, like TreeAssist, essentials, and so on. We are not against all mods, just ones that give unfair advantages. People come to us asking about mods, and if there is no unfair advantage it gives, we allow them. 

At the end of the day, we make the decision. This has gone  on for long enough. We are not convinced that it should be allowed. It is cheaty, and that is that. 

 

Well, i tried. Thank you for talking with me.

Ill try to repay the favor someday.

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